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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:45 am

...and for some reason I feel I have to say again that Brad and I worked this out via email. He paid the fine and we're moving on and I am confident he will make a decision that best suits him when the season ends and so should everyone else.

I want every owner in this league to be right here 10 years from now. I hope you all love this league as much as I do and feel like we have made progress every year in stepping up our game but as much as I want that to be the reality, I can't force anyone to be here.


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Singapore Slings
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:07 am

TBH, I'm fine with the rule and fine as it currently stands. I fuck up, I pay $10. It was the dice roll that killed me before, and why I argued so vehimantly. Andy came down to the flat rate and escalating aspect, which I think is a fair and reasonable comprimise. A couple of guys pitching an extra $10 into the coffer that we all have the opportunity to access each year? I'd call that a fair "oops, sorry for accidentally comprimising the competitive nature of the leauge" pennance. Do it 10 times a year? Get your shit together or gtfo. No?


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Singapore Slings
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:53 am

Singapore Slings wrote:
TBH, I'm fine with the rule and fine as it currently stands. I fuck up, I pay $10. It was the dice roll that killed me before, and why I argued so vehimantly. Andy came down to the flat rate and escalating aspect, which I think is a fair and reasonable comprimise. A couple of guys pitching an extra $10 into the coffer that we all have the opportunity to access each year? I'd call that a fair "oops, sorry for accidentally comprimising the competitive nature of the leauge" pennance. Do it 10 times a year? Get your shit together or gtfo. No?

Given the post-count shaming Brad is surely about to unleash upon on my ass, I fully appreciate the irony of this post.  



shit.


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:45 am

Like Andy said... He and I are good. We disagree, but we're good.

I just have to look at the $10 as a slush fund as opposed to a punitive measure. I still think that a first time Oops should be enacted and there's not really anything that can be said to persuade me otherwise. (Once a mistake, twice a coincidence, 3x a pattern).

In general, in business or in this league, you want to have good people surrounding you and when you are doing things that get people thinking about leaving, well, that's generally a sign that you aren't doing something that you should. People will come and go, but we shouldn't be instituting methods to encourage that.

As for the argument of you knew the rules when you signed up.. I'm not sure if there's a worse argument and folks really should stop using it. I think everyone would agree that we want what is best for the league. Discussing what to me is a loophole, shouldn't initiate the strawman that: it's just the way it is and you should live with it crowd.


But, I'm not going to post on it anymore. I disagree with it. We move on.


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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:57 am

Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
Like Andy said... He and I are good.   We disagree, but we're good.  

I just have to look at the $10 as a slush fund as opposed to a punitive measure.   I still think that a first time Oops should be enacted and there's not really anything that can be said to persuade me otherwise. (Once a mistake, twice a coincidence, 3x a pattern).  

In general, in business or in this league, you want to have good people surrounding you and when you are doing things that get people thinking about leaving, well, that's generally a sign that you aren't doing something that you should.  People will come and go, but we shouldn't be instituting methods to encourage that.  

As for the argument of you knew the rules when you signed up.. I'm not sure if there's a worse argument and folks really should stop using it.  I think everyone would agree that we want what is best for the league.   Discussing what to me is a loophole, shouldn't initiate the strawman that:  it's just the way it is and you should live with it crowd.  


But, I'm not going to post on it anymore.  I disagree with it.  We move on.

Thanks for sticking around for the rest of the season Brad, and hope you stay here for a very long time after that. Fantasy Football leagues are like jobs ina way. You have to abide by the rules even some you don't agree with. Sometimes you just have to step away and move on but most times you stick around and try to deal with the stuff you disagree with. There is no perfect "Job" or "FF league". I think you are doing what I mentioned, an adult way to handle a disagreement/situation.



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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:20 am

I'll share my 2 cents even tho nobody cares... laughing

I don't like the rule, I believe that if a strong, original owner is forced to pay for stuff that happens to everyone eventually, it pisses people off and we lose good owners.

Having said that, making sure I'm on top of my stuff is partly due to the deterrent of a fine. If I had life happen a couple times and my fines were to escalate to the $80 range I would likely choose to leave rather than pay that...

Anyway, most importantly glad to hear Brad is staying and hopefully it's not just for now!


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Indiana Mayhem
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:06 pm

Glad Brad is staying


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:54 pm

Andy,

I am not sure if you consider me loud about this or not, but I will admit that clause caused me to pause before I joined.  It was a dice roll then though and that was part of the hesitation.


Sure glad I saw past it though.

high five


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:49 pm

Norfolk Bombers wrote:
Andy,

I am not sure if you consider me  loud about this or not, but I will admit that clause caused me to pause before I joined.  It was a dice roll then though and that was part of the hesitation.


Sure glad I saw past it though.

high five

I am glad you guys convinced me to dump the dice roll. It would have caused me more headaches than it ever would have been worth.

I am very much committed to a policy where dropping the ball equals a penalty and something that can be seen as a benefit to the rest of the group and/or those who may have been screwed by said ball-drop.

As always, I am listening and considering options to improve the league.


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Bergen Brawlers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:55 pm

At the risk of being called a cunt, the penalty roll concept had a Dungeons and Dragons feel to it.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:57 pm

Bergen Brawlers wrote:
At the risk of being called a cunt, the penalty roll concept had a Dungeons and Dragons feel to it.

laughing I just have a sick sense of humor and liked the randomness of it all but I can TOTALLY see why everyone else would hate it.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:37 pm

Minnesota Eternals wrote:
Norfolk Bombers wrote:
Andy,

I am not sure if you consider me  loud about this or not, but I will admit that clause caused me to pause before I joined.  It was a dice roll then though and that was part of the hesitation.


Sure glad I saw past it though.

high five

I am glad you guys convinced me to dump the dice roll.  It would have caused me more headaches than it ever would have been worth.

I am very much committed to a policy where dropping the ball equals a penalty and something that can be seen as a benefit to the rest of the group and/or those who may have been screwed by said ball-drop.

As always, I am listening and considering options to improve the league.

That's cool. And it was cool of you to drop the dice roll. You were really into that at the time, but that made things a lot better.

If you're open to rule proposal changes that don't change the core of what you're doing (i.e. real money fines) that'd be cool. Maybe I'll think of it in the off-season. Top of my head might just be reducing the time it takes to get a clean slate again maybe. Given the high escalation (i.e. doubling each fine) it seems like a full season without incident would be fair to wipe things clean. Again, I think we all agree that the vast majority of these fines are "oops" type things as opposed to someone being an overtly crappy owner. In the case of overtly crappy owners, they usually don't last that long anyways. But again, maybe I'm an overtly crappy owner for making three lineup mistakes in 2014? That might be the case.

More than anything though, I'm really unhappy about Gronkowski and maybe Eifert being out this week.


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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:51 pm

New England Nineties wrote:
Minnesota Eternals wrote:
Norfolk Bombers wrote:
Andy,

I am not sure if you consider me  loud about this or not, but I will admit that clause caused me to pause before I joined.  It was a dice roll then though and that was part of the hesitation.


Sure glad I saw past it though.

high five

I am glad you guys convinced me to dump the dice roll.  It would have caused me more headaches than it ever would have been worth.

I am very much committed to a policy where dropping the ball equals a penalty and something that can be seen as a benefit to the rest of the group and/or those who may have been screwed by said ball-drop.

As always, I am listening and considering options to improve the league.

That's cool. And it was cool of you to drop the dice roll. You were really into that at the time, but that made things a lot better.

If you're open to rule proposal changes that don't change the core of what you're doing (i.e. real money fines) that'd be cool. Maybe I'll think of it in the off-season. Top of my head might just be reducing the time it takes to get a clean slate again maybe. Given the high escalation (i.e. doubling each fine) it seems like a full season without incident would be fair to wipe things clean. Again, I think we all agree that the vast majority of these fines are "oops" type things as opposed to someone being an overtly crappy owner. In the case of overtly crappy owners, they usually don't last that long anyways. But again, maybe I'm an overtly crappy owner for making three lineup mistakes in 2014? That might be the case.

More than anything though, I'm really unhappy about Gronkowski and maybe Eifert being out this week.

That one change Mike mentioned is all that is needed tbh.

Make it ONE SEASON of no transgressions means that person goes back to initial fine ($10). That avoids people getting to excessive fines, and helps whoever screws up have something to work for...


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California Nightmare
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:02 pm

One season seems like a reasonable amount of time for the penalties to escalate. Paying for penalties 2 years ago is Goodell like.


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Mohawk Ridge Marauders
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:14 pm

Tarpon Springs RedKnights wrote:
New England Nineties wrote:
Minnesota Eternals wrote:
Norfolk Bombers wrote:
Andy,

I am not sure if you consider me  loud about this or not, but I will admit that clause caused me to pause before I joined.  It was a dice roll then though and that was part of the hesitation.


Sure glad I saw past it though.

high five

I am glad you guys convinced me to dump the dice roll.  It would have caused me more headaches than it ever would have been worth.

I am very much committed to a policy where dropping the ball equals a penalty and something that can be seen as a benefit to the rest of the group and/or those who may have been screwed by said ball-drop.

As always, I am listening and considering options to improve the league.

That's cool. And it was cool of you to drop the dice roll. You were really into that at the time, but that made things a lot better.

If you're open to rule proposal changes that don't change the core of what you're doing (i.e. real money fines) that'd be cool. Maybe I'll think of it in the off-season. Top of my head might just be reducing the time it takes to get a clean slate again maybe. Given the high escalation (i.e. doubling each fine) it seems like a full season without incident would be fair to wipe things clean. Again, I think we all agree that the vast majority of these fines are "oops" type things as opposed to someone being an overtly crappy owner. In the case of overtly crappy owners, they usually don't last that long anyways. But again, maybe I'm an overtly crappy owner for making three lineup mistakes in 2014? That might be the case.

More than anything though, I'm really unhappy about Gronkowski and maybe Eifert being out this week.

That one change Mike mentioned is all that is needed tbh.

Make it ONE SEASON of no transgressions means that person goes back to initial fine ($10). That avoids people getting to excessive fines, and helps whoever screws up have something to work for...

I could agree with this.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:26 pm

Brad and I have likely worked out an amended version of the current policy that those opposed to my current rule will be satisfied with while not making me feel like we are pussifying this shit cuz I'm not into that.

More to come after the season.



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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:30 pm

eating popcorn eating popcorn eating popcorn


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Mohawk Ridge Marauders
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:31 pm

Intriguing. I await with baited breath.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:47 pm

Winter is coming.


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Naperville Divine
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:22 pm

Sad to think that fantasy football will be nearing the end of the season.


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Las Vegas DeGenerates
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:35 am

zip it


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Baja Beatniks
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:50 pm

Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
As for the argument of you knew the rules when you signed up.. I'm not sure if there's a worse argument and folks really should stop using it.  I think everyone would agree that we want what is best for the league.   Discussing what to me is a loophole, shouldn't initiate the strawman that:  it's just the way it is and you should live with it crowd.  

Oh, right. Because you said you just wanted to discuss the rule and possibly improve it. I thought you said you were quitiing and knew all along that you would quit if you were ever penalized.

So yes, there is a worse argument. Yours. Don't pussy out now.


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:17 pm

Baja Beatniks wrote:
Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
As for the argument of you knew the rules when you signed up.. I'm not sure if there's a worse argument and folks really should stop using it.  I think everyone would agree that we want what is best for the league.   Discussing what to me is a loophole, shouldn't initiate the strawman that:  it's just the way it is and you should live with it crowd.  

Oh, right.  Because you said you just wanted to discuss the rule and possibly improve it.  I thought you said you were quitiing and knew all along that you would quit if you were ever penalized.

So yes, there is a worse argument.  Yours.  Don't pussy out now.

Wow.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:52 pm

Baja Beatniks wrote:
Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
As for the argument of you knew the rules when you signed up.. I'm not sure if there's a worse argument and folks really should stop using it.  I think everyone would agree that we want what is best for the league.   Discussing what to me is a loophole, shouldn't initiate the strawman that:  it's just the way it is and you should live with it crowd.  

Oh, right.  Because you said you just wanted to discuss the rule and possibly improve it.  I thought you said you were quitiing and knew all along that you would quit if you were ever penalized.

So yes, there is a worse argument.  Yours.  Don't pussy out now.

There's really no reason to be an a-hole. We've had owners go down that road and it usually ends up leading them out of the league.

Brad is living up to the rules - he paid his fine. I also don't think there's anything wrong with playing in a league and not being a fan of 100% of the rules, assuming you still respect them, which Brad has done. You take the good with the bad, and RW is overwhelmingly good. You can't find the core essence of this league anywhere else, so I understand accepting something you don't like and just hoping it never becomes an issue.

I'm sorry this offends you so much that you have to go into alpha male internet tough guy mode. Maybe you should go outside for a little bit. Look at a bird or something.



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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:56 pm

New England Nineties wrote:
Baja Beatniks wrote:
Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
As for the argument of you knew the rules when you signed up.. I'm not sure if there's a worse argument and folks really should stop using it.  I think everyone would agree that we want what is best for the league.   Discussing what to me is a loophole, shouldn't initiate the strawman that:  it's just the way it is and you should live with it crowd.  

Oh, right.  Because you said you just wanted to discuss the rule and possibly improve it.  I thought you said you were quitiing and knew all along that you would quit if you were ever penalized.

So yes, there is a worse argument.  Yours.  Don't pussy out now.

There's really no reason to be an a-hole. We've had owners go down that road and it usually ends up leading them out of the league.

Brad is living up to the rules - he paid his fine. I also don't think there's anything wrong with playing in a league and not being a fan of 100% of the rules, assuming you still respect them, which Brad has done. You take the good with the bad, and RW is overwhelmingly good. You can't find the core essence of this league anywhere else, so I understand accepting something you don't like and just hoping it never becomes an issue.

I'm sorry this offends you so much that you have to go into alpha male internet tough guy mode. Maybe you should go outside for a little bit. Look at a bird or something.


good post

pay attention


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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:56 pm

New England Nineties wrote:
Baja Beatniks wrote:
Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
As for the argument of you knew the rules when you signed up.. I'm not sure if there's a worse argument and folks really should stop using it.  I think everyone would agree that we want what is best for the league.   Discussing what to me is a loophole, shouldn't initiate the strawman that:  it's just the way it is and you should live with it crowd.  

Oh, right.  Because you said you just wanted to discuss the rule and possibly improve it.  I thought you said you were quitiing and knew all along that you would quit if you were ever penalized.

So yes, there is a worse argument.  Yours.  Don't pussy out now.

There's really no reason to be an a-hole. We've had owners go down that road and it usually ends up leading them out of the league.

Brad is living up to the rules - he paid his fine. I also don't think there's anything wrong with playing in a league and not being a fan of 100% of the rules, assuming you still respect them, which Brad has done. You take the good with the bad, and RW is overwhelmingly good. You can't find the core essence of this league anywhere else, so I understand accepting something you don't like and just hoping it never becomes an issue.

I'm sorry this offends you so much that you have to go into alpha male internet tough guy mode. Maybe you should go outside for a little bit. Look at a bird or something.



I cannot stand agreeing with Mike. It makes me sick inside. But I must agree with Mike here, this issue had a great resolution with Andy and Brad working together to propose a change that benefits the league. No need to beat a dead horse.


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Baja Beatniks
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:21 am

You all are 100% right. The impact on me and my franchise is less than zero and there was no point at all in me commenting, particularly in such an abrasive manner. Please accept my sincere apologies.


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Kane County Goon Squad
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:41 pm



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Hamilton Steel Cats
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Thu Dec 03, 2015 3:54 pm

I can't believe a thread about a 10 dollar fine has garnered 78 replies.  If each reply cost 10 freaking cents we'd already have covered $7.80 of the 10 freaking bucks.  This 10 bucks may have been spoken more than A.I.'s infamous "Practice" Interview.  wink

During this whole debate I have said to myself in my best imitation of Allen Iversons "Practice" Interview subbing the word 10 bucks for Practice.



coffee ... a view from my side of the desk.

2cents of enjoyment ... wait drop it in the jar and we'll be that much closer to practice err 10 bucks. :dry:


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:05 pm

Make it $7.90!

What is this thread about again???


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