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 Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD

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Coachella Tremors
 
 
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PostSubject: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:08 am

Not there are any doubters, but for any film diehards here is a super reel of all of Barkley's touches this year...good edit job, just two hours of him with the ball. https://www.dynastyjag.com/2018/02/saquon-barkely-film-study/
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Las Vegas Juggalos
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:06 am

So I get that Cleveland needs a QB but am I the only one that really thinks they should take Barkley 1 and a QB at 4?

Yes, I get they would take a whole world of issues due to drafting a RB at 4 but if people are predicting he goes number 2, is one spot higher really that bad?
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Tenafly Vipers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:22 am

I would take Barkley and Minkah Fitzpatrick, or trade out of the 1 and take Fitzpatrick and try to get whatever QB is left when it gets to my second first.

But what do I know?


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Latvia Unicorns
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:59 am

If Cleveland has a QB they like (there’s something wrong if they don’t), they need to take him at 1. Cant take the risk on him being there at 4.

The best RB in the league cannot affect the outcome of a franchise the way a QB can and for the Browns to take Barkley over a QB is ridiculous to me.


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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:35 am

Cleveland needs to not get a QB but instead give the kid they drafted last year a fluckin chance with some more people on offense that can help him out.


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Toontown Wolverines
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:36 am

I would say that Fournette does a lot for the Jaguars, Gurley does a lot for the Rams and Elliot does a lot for Dallas.  Goff, Bortles and Dak are all better QBs because of who is lining up behind them.
I agree with you Chase... the Browns should be taking  Barkley first and Fitzpatrick 4th (any secondary that gets scorched by Hundley needs help).  I believe a veteran Free agent Qb is the route Cleveland should take, then they can work with Kizer some more... he does have talent, he was just a project that should never have starter a game.


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Coachella Tremors
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:08 am

I just do not understand the thinking that Cleveland has the coaching and organization to draft, develop and succeed with a rookie QB...feels like the definition of insanity to me (keep doing the same thing expecting a different result).


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Cyclone City Falcons
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:32 am

The Browns actually have some decent talent on their squad. I don't know why any FA QB would sign there given their recent history of ineptitude though. They can't seem to make the correct QB pick so if I were the GM, here's what I would plan:

Assuming I like at least 4 of the rookie QB's available, I'd want to take the QB decision out of my hands. I'd look to trade back from the 1.01 and target the Broncos (1.05) or Jets (1.06) and get additional picks. Then just take whatever QB falls to me at 1.04 and BPA at 1.05/1.06. If Barkley falls to 1.05, great and if not then a QB falls instead. There's plenty of RB depth that I'd be comfortable selecting an RB in the 3rd or 4th. I might even consider another QB with the added pick from the Broncos/Jets or with a 3rd or 4th round selection.


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St. Louis Duffers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:19 am

Coachella Tremors wrote:
I just do not understand the thinking that Cleveland has the coaching and organization to draft, develop and succeed with a rookie QB...feels like the definition of insanity to me (keep doing the same thing expecting a different result).

I 1000% agree. They need to look at a veteran than can not only play but play in the bitter weather in Cleveland. I just don't understand the repeated drafting of rookie QBs that have only played in the warm weather.


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Alaska Arsenic
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:26 am

Cleveland's best QB the last 17 years has been Derek Anderson. Someone they didn't have to develop. They need to go back to that mentality. Let a kid learn elsewhere and they bring him in. Don't draft another. They need to trade and continue to gain assets. We saw San Fran fleece the Bears last year to move up a pick. It's possible. Otherwise trade with Denver and take a later first and an early 2nd and still have your 4th pick.


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Cyclone City Falcons
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:40 am

Alaska Arsenic wrote:
Cleveland's best QB the last 17 years has been Derek Anderson.  Someone they didn't have to develop.  They need to go back to that mentality.  Let a kid learn elsewhere and they bring him in.  Don't draft another.  They need to trade and continue to gain assets.  We saw San Fran fleece the Bears last year to move up a pick.  It's possible.  Otherwise trade with Denver and take a later first and an early 2nd and still have your 4th pick.

Who in their right mind wants to sign there? It would have to be via trade
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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:02 am

I also think Cleveland should trade back to the 5th or 6th spot and get a kings ransom. I mean look how well it turned out when the passed on the bum Wentz!


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Alaska Arsenic
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:07 am

Norfolk Bombers wrote:
I also think Cleveland should trade back to the 5th or 6th spot and get a kings ransom.  I mean look how well it turned out when the passed on the bum Wentz!

This is the chicken and the egg argument. Is it that they can't develop a quarterback or is it that they always choose the wrong ones. I think Wentz flops if he's picked by Cleveland. I think Tim Couch has a great career if he doesn't go to Cleveland.


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Las Vegas Juggalos
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:29 am

So why trade back to get a qb? I get the idea of more picks but is that qb going to help more then Barkley? It takes running backs less time to adjust to the game then and. Take a qb and let him learn and let the rb play. Bortles proved he isn't that good without a running game. To me he has proven to still have problems but Fournette was the right pick for them. I stick with Barkley at 1 and qb at four or trade back, I don't see giants passing on Barkley. Besides look at the division the Browns are in, the running game is important.


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Alaska Arsenic
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:33 am

I didn't say trade back and get a QB. I said trade back. They need to sign someone. I don't know who would go there but enough guys are after money over winning. Someone with confidence wouldn't be afraid to go and be the savior.


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Cyclone City Falcons
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:36 am

Las Vegas Juggalos wrote:
So why trade back to get a qb? I get the idea of more picks but is that qb going to help more then Barkley? It takes running backs less time to adjust to the game then and. Take a qb and let him learn and let the rb play. Bortles proved he isn't that good without a running game. To me he has proven to still have problems but Fournette was the right pick for them. I stick with Barkley at 1 and qb at four or trade back, I don't see giants passing on Barkley. Besides look at the division the Browns are in, the running game is important.

Are the Browns in 'Win Now Mode" though? They're still building their team but have solid young pieces to build around. They'd have to convince a veteran QB to sign with them in order to tutor a young QB. I don't see a QB signing there unless there's nothing else for them. Trading back allows them to not have to make decision on a QB, let the other teams do it. Maybe they're wrong and you get the 4th guy available and he works out for you. I don't think Kizer was a bad pick but they ruined him and his confidence is shot at this point. If they select a QB at 1.01 and he bombs, it sets them back at least a few years. If they trade back, get extra picks and take the QB that falls to them, maybe they turn things around. thinking2


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Las Vegas Juggalos
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:41 am

Cyclone City Falcons wrote:
Las Vegas Juggalos wrote:
So why trade back to get a qb? I get the idea of more picks but is that qb going to help more then Barkley? It takes running backs less time to adjust to the game then and. Take a qb and let him learn and let the rb play. Bortles proved he isn't that good without a running game. To me he has proven to still have problems but Fournette was the right pick for them. I stick with Barkley at 1 and qb at four or trade back, I don't see giants passing on Barkley. Besides look at the division the Browns are in, the running game is important.

Are the Browns in 'Win Now Mode" though? They're still building their team but have solid young pieces to build around. They'd have to convince a veteran QB to sign with them in order to tutor a young QB. I don't see a QB signing there unless there's nothing else for them. Trading back allows them to not have to make decision on a QB, let the other teams do it. Maybe they're wrong and you get the 4th guy available and he works out for you. I don't think Kizer was a bad pick but they ruined him and his confidence is shot at this point. If they select a QB at 1.01 and he bombs, it sets them back at least a few years. If they trade back, get extra picks and take the QB that falls to them, maybe they turn things around. thinking2

Another reason to take Barkley and I bet cousins will go if you pay him enough. Cousins wants money not a chance to win.
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Toontown Wolverines
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:47 pm

If only Kevin Costnar was available to gm the Browns.


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Las Vegas Juggalos
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:55 pm

Toontown Wolverines wrote:
If only Kevin Costnar was available to gm the Browns.

I would like the Brown's nore.
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Coachella Tremors
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:12 pm

Las Vegas Juggalos wrote:
Another reason to take Barkley and I bet cousins will go if you pay him enough. Cousins wants money not a chance to win.

Agree with this...$ + invest in the running game + Gordon/Coleman/Njoku + competitive defense...if you can get past the horseshit management/organization, it could be a compelling place to play
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Polk High Panthers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:37 pm

If I'm Cleveland I do a 49ers/Bears move and tell the Giants that we are taking Barkley at 1 unless you want to pay for us not to do it. Take the equity from that go back to 2, let NYG take Barkley draft their QB of the future and go about their day.


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Toontown Wolverines
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:26 pm

I somewhat compare the Browns to the Jaguars.  Young talented team, had alot of pieces in place, just needed a better game plan that didn't hurt there young QB as much.  Thats why I say draft Barkley and then Fitzpatrick.  Kinda like having Fournette and Ramsey.


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Las Vegas Juggalos
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:11 pm

Toontown Wolverines wrote:
I somewhat compare the Browns to the Jaguars.  Young talented team, had alot of pieces in place, just needed a better game plan that didn't hurt there young QB as much.  Thats why I say draft Barkley and then Fitzpatrick.  Kinda like having Fournette and Ramsey.

Guard and QB are the top two positions we need.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:43 am

Barkley is the real deal. I wish I had the 1.01 somewhere.


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Latvia Unicorns
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:14 am

You guys think that an organisation will “take what QB falls to them”? This is the future of their franchise. They have to be bullish and take their guy that they want to lead this team. It’s fine sitting at home or looking back in hindsight saying wI like John Dorsey a lot and hope he makes the right decision.e could have got this player and this player but it doesn’t work like that during the draft.

Adrian Peterson was one of the greatest RB’s in the history of the game. He made 4 playoff trips and won 1 game. If he was one of the greatest QB’s of all time, that number would be a lot higher.


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Edinburgh Galacticos
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:03 am

Latvia Unicorns wrote:
You guys think that an organisation will “take what QB falls to them”? This is the future of their franchise. They have to be bullish and take their guy that they want to lead this team. It’s fine sitting at home or looking back in hindsight saying wI like John Dorsey a lot and hope he makes the right decision.e could have got this player and this player but it doesn’t work like that during the draft.

Adrian Peterson was one of the greatest RB’s in the history of the game. He made 4 playoff trips and won 1 game. If he was one of the greatest QB’s of all time, that number would be a lot higher.

Problem is Ross that they do not have an environment where a QB can succeed. Kizer never had a chance, neither did anyone else who has played under centre in the last 10+ years. Also they have a losing culture.

For the 1st year in a long time the FA market is really good for QBs and their cap situation is perfect. Why not bring Cousins in? Then they can draft say Barkley & Nelson (who could be the best Guard in the NFL from his first game).


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Latvia Unicorns
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:53 am

Edinburgh Galacticos wrote:
Latvia Unicorns wrote:
You guys think that an organisation will “take what QB falls to them”? This is the future of their franchise. They have to be bullish and take their guy that they want to lead this team. It’s fine sitting at home or looking back in hindsight saying wI like John Dorsey a lot and hope he makes the right decision.e could have got this player and this player but it doesn’t work like that during the draft.

Adrian Peterson was one of the greatest RB’s in the history of the game. He made 4 playoff trips and won 1 game. If he was one of the greatest QB’s of all time, that number would be a lot higher.

Problem is Ross that they do not have an environment where a QB can succeed. Kizer never had a chance, neither did anyone else who has played under centre in the last 10+ years. Also they have a losing culture.

For the 1st year in a long time the FA market is really good for QBs and their cap situation is perfect. Why not bring Cousins in? Then they can draft say Barkley & Nelson (who could be the best Guard in the NFL from his first game).

Agree re bringing in Cousins. He’s a proven franchise QB and that’s what they need. We can get into the weeds about Nick Foles, Keenum/Bridgewater/Bradford etc but that’s a different conversation for me. My argument is that if they still need a QB come draft time, it would be silly to risk waiting on your guy.

I also love Nelson as a prospect. He plays big boy football and makes it look easy.


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Muskego Muskies
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:16 am

Latvia Unicorns wrote:
If Cleveland has a QB they like (there’s something wrong if they don’t), they need to take him at 1. Cant take the risk on him being there at 4.

The best RB in the league cannot affect the outcome of a franchise the way a QB can and for the Browns to take Barkley over a QB is ridiculous to me.
Agreed, I don’t care who’s at RB, the QB makes or breaks your team. Sure QB’s are better with a good RB behind but if there’s no threat of a pass the RB is toast. Look at Gurley in 2016 with no QB vs. 2017 when Geoff stepped up. A good QB can make up for a lot of other deficiencies on offense.


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Alaska Arsenic
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:25 am

Muskego Muskies wrote:
Latvia Unicorns wrote:
If Cleveland has a QB they like (there’s something wrong if they don’t), they need to take him at 1. Cant take the risk on him being there at 4.

The best RB in the league cannot affect the outcome of a franchise the way a QB can and for the Browns to take Barkley over a QB is ridiculous to me.
Agreed, I don’t care who’s at RB, the QB makes or breaks your team. Sure QB’s are better with a good RB behind but if there’s no threat of a pass the RB is toast. Look at Gurley in 2016 with no QB vs. 2017 when Geoff stepped up. A good QB can make up for a lot of other deficiencies on offense.

That's a slippery slope argument. The Rams also made a HUGE upgrade at coach. Goff and Keenum played in 2016. Look at both in 2017 with new coaches.


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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:29 am

At this point, Cleveland is likely responsible for ruining opportunities for numerous QBs. They should spend the money and get a QB that has proven an ability to play in this league (Cousins) and in turn prove to us they know what to do with a QB that can play in this league. My guess it's not gonna happen.

The ol' "It's not you, it's me" except not talking a break-up but who is to blame. If you're a rookie QB and the Browns draft you, how could you not see that as your death notice at this point?

Pay for a veteran QB, maximize the value of your draft picks by potentially getting a kings ransom for trading back/out and/or draft with the intent of improving everything around your new QB. Change the trajectory of your fucking pathetic franchise so that there is some bloody hope for future players coming to your organization.


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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:39 am

Alaska Arsenic wrote:
Muskego Muskies wrote:
Latvia Unicorns wrote:
If Cleveland has a QB they like (there’s something wrong if they don’t), they need to take him at 1. Cant take the risk on him being there at 4.

The best RB in the league cannot affect the outcome of a franchise the way a QB can and for the Browns to take Barkley over a QB is ridiculous to me.
Agreed, I don’t care who’s at RB, the QB makes or breaks your team. Sure QB’s are better with a good RB behind but if there’s no threat of a pass the RB is toast. Look at Gurley in 2016 with no QB vs. 2017 when Geoff stepped up. A good QB can make up for a lot of other deficiencies on offense.

That's a slippery slope argument.  The Rams also made a HUGE upgrade at coach.  Goff and Keenum played in 2016.  Look at both in 2017 with new coaches.
It’s really not slippery at all. If you don’t have a good QB you won’t get far. History has shown us that over and over. A good QB makes you a perennial playoff team. There’s a reason 3-5 QB’s are taken every year in the 1st Rd and not many RB’s. Most RB’s are plug and play or RBBC these days. All older RB’s are “washed up” no matter how good they’ve been because owners know they can always find a cheaper version to plug and play.


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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:56 am

Minnesota Eternals wrote:
At this point, Cleveland is likely responsible for ruining opportunities for numerous QBs.  They should spend the money and get a QB that has proven an ability to play in this league (Cousins) and in turn prove to us they know what to do with a QB that can play in this league.  My guess it's not gonna happen.  

The ol' "It's not you, it's me" except not talking a break-up but who is to blame.  If you're a rookie QB and the Browns draft you, how could you not see that as your death notice at this point?

Pay for a veteran QB, maximize the value of your draft picks by potentially getting a kings ransom for trading back/out and/or draft with the intent of improving everything around your new QB.  Change the trajectory of your fucking pathetic franchise so that there is some bloody hope for future players coming to your organization.
pay attention


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Alaska Arsenic
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:17 am

Muskego Muskies wrote:
Alaska Arsenic wrote:
Muskego Muskies wrote:
Latvia Unicorns wrote:
If Cleveland has a QB they like (there’s something wrong if they don’t), they need to take him at 1. Cant take the risk on him being there at 4.

The best RB in the league cannot affect the outcome of a franchise the way a QB can and for the Browns to take Barkley over a QB is ridiculous to me.
Agreed, I don’t care who’s at RB, the QB makes or breaks your team. Sure QB’s are better with a good RB behind but if there’s no threat of a pass the RB is toast. Look at Gurley in 2016 with no QB vs. 2017 when Geoff stepped up. A good QB can make up for a lot of other deficiencies on offense.

That's a slippery slope argument.  The Rams also made a HUGE upgrade at coach.  Goff and Keenum played in 2016.  Look at both in 2017 with new coaches.
It’s really not slippery at all. If you don’t have a good QB you won’t get far. History has shown us that over and over. A good QB makes you a perennial playoff team. There’s a reason 3-5 QB’s are taken every year in the 1st Rd and not many RB’s. Most RB’s are plug and play or RBBC these days. All older RB’s are “washed up” no matter how good they’ve been because owners know they can always find a cheaper version to plug and play.

You definitely arent wrong here. I was just looking at your Gurley line.


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Tenafly Vipers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Saquon Barkley, RB, TBD   Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:59 am

Let's say 3-5 QBs are taken in the first every year, but when was the last year there were more than like 7 good QBs in the NFL? After the legacy QBs like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Newton, Wilson, Luck, etc., how many good, young QBs come into the league every year? How many young, promising QBs make the leap each year to make a difference on their team and elevate it to not just a playoff team, but a real contender?

Just spitballing here, but I think we're a little spoiled by the Bradys and the Peyton Mannings. As college schemes -- like the RPO! -- start to filter into the NFL, and QBs jobs are made easier by better play calling, I think the cap-cost-value of QBs is going to go down. Not a huge amount. It's still the most important position on your team. But, the Eagles won the Super Bowl with Nick Foles running a college offense with NFL starters at every other position.

Take Barkley at 1 and Fitzpatrick at 4, or trade down from 1 and get a king's ransom and go from there. Unless you think there's a Luck in the draft. I have my doubts. The difference between a David Johnson/Todd Gurley and a replacement RB is bigger than the difference between Rosen/Darnold and a replacement QB.


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