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 Tom Brady QB NEP

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Mohawk Ridge Marauders
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:01 pm

NFL preemptively filed suit in New York to uphold the suspension. They seem pretty confident that they'll uphold the suspension. This seems to be a pretty big point -

Quote :
On or shortly before March 6, the day that Tom Brady met with independent investigator Ted Wells and his colleagues, Brady directed that the cell phone he had used for the prior four months be destroyed. He did so even though he was aware that the investigators had requested access to text messages and other electronic information that had been stored on that phone. During the four months that the cell phone was in use, Brady had exchanged nearly 10,000 text messages, none of which can now be retrieved from that device. The destruction of the cell phone was not disclosed until June 18, almost four months after the investigators had first sought electronic information from Brady.


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Morrison Minions
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:12 pm

Hmm. After thinking about this again, does your employer have the right to demand that you give them your personal belongings and information?


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Philadelphia Pigskins
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:08 pm

They were talking on the radio about it today. I definitely wouldn't hand over my phone to my boss if they asked for it. Also, he is married to a supermodel, so we all know the kinds of pictures that could be on that phone.

Also, I find it very hard to believe that in today's world they need the cell phone to see the text messages that were sent.

Mostly, I think this is all stupid and wish it wasn't being talked about so much.


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Indiana Mayhem
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:40 pm

I wish this would end.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:39 pm

I am with Rob here....fuck the NFL because they could have just made the suspension about "not cooperating and Tom would be suspended. They didn't though so fuck them and I side with Brady because I am not giving you my phone and go fuck yourself too. They launched an investigation and didn't get enough to prove shit so why would he admit to anything?

I believe in following the rules and if he didn't then that's weaksauce on his part but the weaksauce runneth over on the NFL's side of this and other issues. They really need to reel it in as far as how they handle all disciplinary stuff, on and off the field. Like some else said (Todd I think), if it's criminal shit the court should handle it and the NFL wait until a verdict is determined and only then act accordingly and for all game-based horseshit like alledgedly tampering with footballs, our court system should give the NFL and it's players the finger and explain that they have enough to do without settling nonsensical tattling-like behavior of millionaires.



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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:17 pm

Minnesota Eternals wrote:
I am with Rob here....fuck the NFL because they could have just made the suspension about "not cooperating and Tom would be suspended.  They didn't though so fuck them and I side with Brady because I am not giving you my phone and go fuck yourself too.  They launched an investigation and didn't get enough to prove shit so why would he admit to anything?

I believe in following the rules and if he didn't then that's weaksauce on his part but the weaksauce runneth over on the NFL's side of this and other issues.  They really need to reel it in as far as how they handle all disciplinary stuff, on and off the field.  Like some else said (Todd I think), if it's criminal shit the court should handle it and the NFL wait until a verdict is determined and only then act accordingly and for all game-based horseshit like alledgedly tampering with footballs, our court system should give the NFL and it's players the finger and explain that they have enough to do without settling nonsensical tattling-like behavior of millionaires.


Fuck Brady and the Patriot cheater organization for having us hear about their shit. If they would only play fair we would not have a Patriot drama fest every 5 years. I hope the piece of Shit retires tomorrow so he can go golfing with the other drama queen Favreey. Both diva's can suck a flick! B a m


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California Nightmare
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:12 pm



Eat a dick Tom!


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Oaktown Malosos
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:25 pm


................ drama




Last edited by MALOSOS on Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:30 pm

Philadelphia Pigskins wrote:

Blah blah blah

Also, he is married to a supermodel, so we all know the kinds of pictures that could be on that phone.


Kingdom City Growlers 2 wrote:
I wish this would end.



I believe that as a society we need to get to the bottom of this if there are those kinds of pictures. They owe us since we've been forced to listen to this stuff for so long.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:46 pm



Women are beautiful. Got it. Now with that established, I have long wondered why everyone acts like she is all that. I feel I know many ladies who are at least this attractive if not more.

Is this the male version of being attracted to celebrity or wealth? If she wasn't rich and wasn't regularly being dolled up to the Nth degree would anyone give a shit? Of course she's not ugly but without a team of stylists and such I feel like you could drop her into any bar in America and she wouldn't likely be the top attraction.


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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:42 am

Minnesota Eternals wrote:


Women are beautiful.  Got it.  Now with that established, I have long wondered why everyone acts like she is all that.  I feel I know many ladies who are at least this attractive if not more.

Is this the male version of being attracted to celebrity or wealth?  If she wasn't rich and wasn't regularly being dolled up to the Nth degree would anyone give a shit?  Of course she's not ugly but without a team of stylists and such I feel like you could drop her into any bar in America and she wouldn't likely be the top attraction.

You been drinking again? Mab?


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Devils Tower Outlaws
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:37 pm

Fuck Brady, what a cunt... that is all...


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:09 pm

Devils Tower Outlaws wrote:
Fuck Brady,   what a cunt...   that is all...

+1. ROTFLMAO


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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:10 pm



There's truth in every jest


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:16 pm

DB. He didn't look good tonight. Hopefully he's near the end so he can just go away.


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Kane County Goon Squad
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:18 am

Atlanta Africans wrote:


There's truth in every jest
LMAFO


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:43 am

Suspension Nullified.

Misses no games.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:48 am

Bunch of trash.


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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:54 am

Hope he has a nagging sprain in his sphincter all season and it causes him to throw off balance!


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:01 am

Tarpon Springs RedKnights wrote:
Hope he has a nagging sprain in his sphincter all season and it causes him to throw off balance!

Same. I would love for someone to wipe that dirty smug look off of that fucking cheaters face.


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Winsted Psychos
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:08 am

Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:50 am

Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

Good message to send to today's youth. Cheat and you can still win, just find a technicality.


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Las Vegas DeGenerates
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:53 am

Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

The NFL is to blame for the egg on their face. They couldn't prove Brady cheated. Let me say that again, they couldn't prove Brady cheated. They knew they couldn't prove it. But they refused to suspend Brady for not cooperating instead of cheating. They wanted to badly for Brady to admit to cheating instead of just saying we think you cheated, it looks like you cheated, but you are suspended for not cooperating. They fucked themselves.


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:54 am

Las Vegas DeGenerates wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

The NFL is to blame for the egg on their face.  They couldn't prove Brady cheated.  Let me say that again, they couldn't prove Brady cheated.  They knew they couldn't prove it.  But they refused to suspend Brady for not cooperating instead of cheating.  They wanted to badly for Brady to admit to cheating instead of just saying we think you cheated, it looks like you cheated, but you are suspended for not cooperating.  They fucked themselves.

pay attention


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Las Vegas DeGenerates
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:13 am

Titletown Tyrants wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

Good message to send to today's youth. Cheat and you can still win, just find a technicality.

How about teach the youth innocent until proven guilty.  The smell test isn't the law.  Do I think Brady cheated?  He was definitely aware of the balls being deflated.  Is he the first QB to do this?  Hell no.  The league couldn't prove it.  It's their job to prove it if they want to discipline.  Again, the league could have easily suspended for not cooperating.

A funny poll on ESPN when all this shit started, it was something like 64% of the players asked thought Brady deflated the balls. But then, 82% of the players asked didn't care they he did. Funny shit.


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Morrison Minions
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:10 pm

Lets move on from this and focus on what really matters. Sticky gloves.


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Muskego Muskies
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:15 pm

Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
Las Vegas DeGenerates wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

The NFL is to blame for the egg on their face.  They couldn't prove Brady cheated.  Let me say that again, they couldn't prove Brady cheated.  They knew they couldn't prove it.  But they refused to suspend Brady for not cooperating instead of cheating.  They wanted to badly for Brady to admit to cheating instead of just saying we think you cheated, it looks like you cheated, but you are suspended for not cooperating.  They fucked themselves.

pay attention
It feels so much like Goddell and the the NFL make shit up as they go, I'm glad they got an ego check. Their fines/suspension checks and balances is a farce, absolutely no consistency. Do the Pats get their 1st rd pick back now?


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England Dragons
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:07 pm

Las Vegas DeGenerates wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

The NFL is to blame for the egg on their face.  They couldn't prove Brady cheated.  Let me say that again, they couldn't prove Brady cheated.  They knew they couldn't prove it.  But they refused to suspend Brady for not cooperating instead of cheating.  They wanted to badly for Brady to admit to cheating instead of just saying we think you cheated, it looks like you cheated, but you are suspended for not cooperating.  They fucked themselves.

Well said Rob. Saved me typing a whole paragraph.

vote yes


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:47 pm

Titletown Tyrants wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

Good message to send to today's youth. Cheat and you can still win, just find a technicality.

Maybe the message could be the importance of due process.

And there is no evidence that Brady cheated, but we'll leave that one alone.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:53 pm

New England Nineties wrote:
Titletown Tyrants wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

Good message to send to today's youth. Cheat and you can still win, just find a technicality.

Maybe the message could be the importance of due process.

And there is no evidence that Brady cheated, but we'll leave that one alone.

No offense, but that is really homerish. Can you honestly say you don't think he did? Let's be real here without the whole "no 100% evidence". Where are these ball boys? I want to hear from the deflator. Did he lose so much weight he disappeared? Yep, disappeared to an island paid for by Kraft. They will write a book calling Brady out some day, but it will be too late.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:03 pm

Titletown Tyrants wrote:
New England Nineties wrote:
Titletown Tyrants wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

Good message to send to today's youth. Cheat and you can still win, just find a technicality.

Maybe the message could be the importance of due process.

And there is no evidence that Brady cheated, but we'll leave that one alone.

No offense, but that is really homerish. Can you honestly say you don't think he did? Let's be real here without the whole "no 100% evidence". Where are these ball boys? I want to hear from the deflator. Did he lose so much weight he disappeared? Yep, disappeared to an island paid for by Kraft. They will write a book calling Brady out some day, but it will be too late.

Yeah, I can honestly say I don't think he did anything. Mainly because I'm not at all convinced anyone did anything - the actual evidence that the balls were tampered with at all is extremely shaky. And you can dismiss that as homerish, but I guarantee I've read more and know way more about this subject than you (which is embarrassing, I'm not bragging).

I'd like to hear from "the Deflator" as well. He was interviewed by the NFL three times and Wells himself an additional time. Do you know why you and I would like to hear what he has to say? Because Wells excluded his testimony from his report. Yeah, the guy who has all this attention because of a text message, who could be the lynch pin of the whole thing, and Wells doesn't mention his testimony in his 247 page report. If you don't understand why, it's because including that testimony wouldn't help Wells reach the conclusion that he was directed to reach (which is the same reason why Berman's decision used quotes every time he called the report "independent").

If you want to have a real discussion about what you think happened and why, I'm willing to do that. But if you're interested in cracking jokes about the island the Deflator is on because Kraft bribed him, well, you're being the opposite of homerish, which is trollerish.

But seriously, not being dooshy - I'm happy to get into what I think and why if you're willing to do the same.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:06 pm

Ok let's do it. What do you honestly think happened in this whole thing? Front to back, and I mean on Brady and the Pats side.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:30 pm

Well I think the best place to start is the core issue. The actual evidence that the balls were deflated at all is extremely shaky.

1) The refs did not record the actual pressures of all of the balls before the game. This was not standard practice. Walt Anderson simply says that he remembers each ball was 12.5, and the Wells report takes him at his word. Obviously, knowing the actual starting PSI is a hugely important factor.

2) The refs had two different gauges - one with a logo and one without. One of the gauges (believe the logo one) consistently records a pressure of about 0.4 PSI higher than the other gauge. Walt Anderson didn't know for sure which gauge was used pre-game, but said that to the best of his recollection, it was the logo one (the higher reading one). The Wells report, this time, doesn't take Anderson's word, and assumes that he used the non-logo gauge, which would record the lower pressure, which (shocking) would make the half-time discrepancy look bigger.

3) Hopefully everyone knows this by now, but the original report by Chris Mortenson that has since been retracted, said that "11 of the 12 balls were 2lbs below the minimum." This Tweet was shocking and hugely influential as Mortenson is a very credible source. 11 of 12 balls being exactly the same below the minimum is obviously way too exact to be accidental or anything other than tampering. Of course, these numbers were non-sense, fed to Mortenson by a league source (again, shocking). The actual numbers were as follows:

Prioleau’s measurements were, in PSI: (1) 11.8; (2) 11.2; (3) 11.5; (4) 11.0; (5) 11.45; (6) 11.95; (7) 12.3; (8) 11.55; (9) 11.35; (10) 10.9; and (11) 11.35.

Blakeman’s measurements were, also in PSI: (1) 11.5; (2) 10.85; (3) 11.15; (4) 10.7; (5) 11.1; (6) 11.6; (7) 11.85; (8) 11.1; (9) 10.95; (10) 10.5; and (11) 10.9.

(You can see the difference between the two measurements - that's the different gauges).

4) If you assume that Anderson's recollection was correct and he used the higher gauge, these numbers can be predicted by the Ideal Gas Law, when you properly account for all of the atmospheric changes (temperature, wetness, etc). The Wells report scientific consultants did not include consideration to the affect of how the wetness of the balls would change once brought inside, and this has been panned as a physics 101 factor that any competent scientific study would include (again, not going to link the sources, but there are several, and no, they're not all ones that are involved in Kraft in some way).

5) I assume everyone knows that 3 out of 4 of the Colts balls were under 12.5 as well. Only 4 balls were tested because the refs "ran out of time" (lol) and, like the Patriots balls, the starting pressure of the Colts balls was never recorded either, so it's impossible to know how much pressure the Colts balls lost as well.

That's where I start with the whole thing. If you remove yourself from things a little bit and look at the big picture, the bottom line is the starting PSI of the balls was not recorded, the ref who measured the balls doesn't know which gauge he used and the two gauges returned significantly different results, and the Wells report failed at correctly applying the Ideal Gas Law to show that the pressure changes fell outside predictions made by that model (and again - this is AFTER assuming that the balls started at 12.5 and that Anderson used the gauge that was beneficial to the Wells Report's conclusion).

One step down the rabbit hole. Let me know what you think. Bonus points if you don't accuse everything in here as being homerish and can actually tell me what is wrong/slanted/biased here.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:24 pm

So you believe that there was NO foul play? None?


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:06 am

Titletown Tyrants wrote:
So you believe that there was NO foul play? None?

I believe there's a lack of evidence proving that there was foul play at all. That's not to say I think there's a 0% chance there was, but generally speaking, I don't believe something unless there's evidence of it.

I simply find it impossible for someone to say they know for sure that the balls were tampered with when you:

1) Don't record what they started with.

2) Don't know which instrument you used to check them with at half-time (when the choices return very different results).

3) Don't properly account for the Ideal Gas Law.



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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:31 am

That's skirting around it. Do you think Tom did it or not? One word, yes or no?


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Bergen Brawlers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:58 am

New England Nineties wrote:
Titletown Tyrants wrote:
New England Nineties wrote:
Titletown Tyrants wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

Good message to send to today's youth. Cheat and you can still win, just find a technicality.

Maybe the message could be the importance of due process.

And there is no evidence that Brady cheated, but we'll leave that one alone.

No offense, but that is really homerish. Can you honestly say you don't think he did? Let's be real here without the whole "no 100% evidence". Where are these ball boys? I want to hear from the deflator. Did he lose so much weight he disappeared? Yep, disappeared to an island paid for by Kraft. They will write a book calling Brady out some day, but it will be too late.

Yeah, I can honestly say I don't think he did anything. Mainly because I'm not at all convinced anyone did anything - the actual evidence that the balls were tampered with at all is extremely shaky. And you can dismiss that as homerish, but I guarantee I've read more and know way more about this subject than you (which is embarrassing, I'm not bragging).

I'd like to hear from "the Deflator" as well. He was interviewed by the NFL three times and Wells himself an additional time. Do you know why you and I would like to hear what he has to say? Because Wells excluded his testimony from his report. Yeah, the guy who has all this attention because of a text message, who could be the lynch pin of the whole thing, and Wells doesn't mention his testimony in his 247 page report. If you don't understand why, it's because including that testimony wouldn't help Wells reach the conclusion that he was directed to reach (which is the same reason why Berman's decision used quotes every time he called the report "independent").

If you want to have a real discussion about what you think happened and why, I'm willing to do that. But if you're interested in cracking jokes about the island the Deflator is on because Kraft bribed him, well, you're being the opposite of homerish, which is trollerish.

But seriously, not being dooshy - I'm happy to get into what I think and why if you're willing to do the same.

I've read a fair amount but not everything, i.e. I haven't read the whole Wells report or the Patriots' rebuttal report.  But a few things stick out to me and you may be able to clarify them -- I'm not trying to be an a$$ but these are questions that really trouble me:

(1) why did the Patriots hire a guy with the nickname the "Deflator?"  I think I saw somewhere that it had to do with weight loss for that guy but no one's buying that?
(2) I know that the wrong information put out by ESPN put the Pats on the defensive but I would have imagined a more vocal response of the balls weren't deflated.  I think that there were denials but my recollection now (it's been a while) was that Belichek and Brady stumbled on this issue.
(3) if the balls were underinflated, can we all agree that Brady is talented enough and played long enough to know that they were deflated?
(4) if the balls were underinflated without Brady's approval or prior knowledge, can we all agree that the "Deflator" would have been immediately unemployed?
(5) why did Brady get rid of his phone?  This has been blown out of proportion and I think that he just bought a new phone but, as an attorney, the first thing that I tell any client is to preserve evidence.  I can't imagine how this phone was discarded.  It looks bad for him.  What's even more surprising is that the SDNY Judge didn't see this as the end of the game given their prior rulings in similar matters.

In the end, I don't think that the NFL had enough evidence of deflation the day this occurred and I think that it's shady that the NFL didn't address this with the Patriots beforehand.  But I do think that the Patriots have, at some point, deflated balls.  They live on the edge of the rules and I think that they figured that the fine was only $25k so why not risk it.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:09 am

Oh I totally think the NFL was in the wrong, I guess I am just bitter about it because I can tell that there was foul play and I don't like it. I am not a Patriots hater, never have been. I always respected their program. Even after the spygate stuff, I kind of laughed it off and said, "Do what it takes to win". But this pushed me over the edge. It's the old eye test method. You can tell some things, and since the NFL handled it poorly, they got out of it because they covered it well.

I know this is a VERY different subject, but this situation reminded me of the OJ trial. Everyone knew he did it. He did it. He cheated life, and things came back to bite him. I lost respect for TB, that is all I am saying.



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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:45 am

Why does this not surprise me that Brady isn't going to get suspended???  no


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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:22 pm

New England Nineties wrote:


5) I assume everyone knows that 3 out of 4 of the Colts balls were under 12.5 as well. Only 4 balls were tested because the refs "ran out of time" (lol) and, like the Patriots balls, the starting pressure of the Colts balls was never recorded either, so it's impossible to know how much pressure the Colts balls lost as well.



This is all you need to read to know you have a homerish take...  3 / 4of the colts balls were under on ONE gauge and not the other.  It is real important to discuss which gauge is used when discussing Pats balls, but you quickly drop a  half fact (half a fact that fits your angle of the story) and walk away.

Why not tell the whole truth on this fact as well????

eating popcorn eating popcorn eating popcorn


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:22 pm

Bergen Brawlers wrote:
New England Nineties wrote:
Titletown Tyrants wrote:
New England Nineties wrote:
Titletown Tyrants wrote:
Winsted Psychos wrote:
Damn, well thats certainly a great message to send to the league.

Good message to send to today's youth. Cheat and you can still win, just find a technicality.

Maybe the message could be the importance of due process.

And there is no evidence that Brady cheated, but we'll leave that one alone.

No offense, but that is really homerish. Can you honestly say you don't think he did? Let's be real here without the whole "no 100% evidence". Where are these ball boys? I want to hear from the deflator. Did he lose so much weight he disappeared? Yep, disappeared to an island paid for by Kraft. They will write a book calling Brady out some day, but it will be too late.

Yeah, I can honestly say I don't think he did anything. Mainly because I'm not at all convinced anyone did anything - the actual evidence that the balls were tampered with at all is extremely shaky. And you can dismiss that as homerish, but I guarantee I've read more and know way more about this subject than you (which is embarrassing, I'm not bragging).

I'd like to hear from "the Deflator" as well. He was interviewed by the NFL three times and Wells himself an additional time. Do you know why you and I would like to hear what he has to say? Because Wells excluded his testimony from his report. Yeah, the guy who has all this attention because of a text message, who could be the lynch pin of the whole thing, and Wells doesn't mention his testimony in his 247 page report. If you don't understand why, it's because including that testimony wouldn't help Wells reach the conclusion that he was directed to reach (which is the same reason why Berman's decision used quotes every time he called the report "independent").

If you want to have a real discussion about what you think happened and why, I'm willing to do that. But if you're interested in cracking jokes about the island the Deflator is on because Kraft bribed him, well, you're being the opposite of homerish, which is trollerish.

But seriously, not being dooshy - I'm happy to get into what I think and why if you're willing to do the same.

I've read a fair amount but not everything, i.e. I haven't read the whole Wells report or the Patriots' rebuttal report.  But a few things stick out to me and you may be able to clarify them -- I'm not trying to be an a$$ but these are questions that really trouble me:

(1) why did the Patriots hire a guy with the nickname the "Deflator?"  I think I saw somewhere that it had to do with weight loss for that guy but no one's buying that?
(2) I know that the wrong information put out by ESPN put the Pats on the defensive but I would have imagined a more vocal response of the balls weren't deflated.  I think that there were denials but my recollection now (it's been a while) was that Belichek and Brady stumbled on this issue.
(3) if the balls were underinflated, can we all agree that Brady is talented enough and played long enough to know that they were deflated?
(4) if the balls were underinflated without Brady's approval or prior knowledge, can we all agree that the "Deflator" would have been immediately unemployed?
(5) why did Brady get rid of his phone?  This has been blown out of proportion and I think that he just bought a new phone but, as an attorney, the first thing that I tell any client is to preserve evidence.  I can't imagine how this phone was discarded.  It looks bad for him.  What's even more surprising is that the SDNY Judge didn't see this as the end of the game given their prior rulings in similar matters.

In the end, I don't think that the NFL had enough evidence of deflation the day this occurred and I think that it's shady that the NFL didn't address this with the Patriots beforehand.  But I do think that the Patriots have, at some point, deflated balls.  They live on the edge of the rules and I think that they figured that the fine was only $25k so why not risk it.

1) The "Deflator" text message was between two guys and there was no mention of Brady in that conversation. This is one of those headline grabbing things that people have run with like it's super meaningful. One of the guys also called the other "Dorito Dink." These guys were morons.

I don't know why he called him the Deflator. That's way different than taking the opposite stance which is "Well one guy called the other the Deflator, so obviously that means Tom Brady organized a scheme in which this guy secretly took air out of the footballs after the refs checked them!"

The weight loss explanation given by the Patriots was based on the claim that Jastremski had lost weight, and there was another text message sent from McNally to Jastremski saying "Deflate and give someone that jacket." That was an away game, so McNally wasn't working, he saw Jastremski on TV holding a jacket or something and texted him that. I don't know.

Regardless, the notion that this is some kind of evidence of anything is rather silly. There's no indication that he got the name "Deflator" by tampering with footballs after the refs checked them. And even if there was, there's no mention of Brady.

And you know who probably DID give an explanation? McNally and Jastremski. Amazingly, after being interviewed by professional prosecutors multiple times (including Wells himself), McNally and Jastremski's testimony does not appear in the 243 Wells Report. Probably because it help Wells' conclusion. This is a pattern.

2) The Patriots didn't put out a more vocal response because they didn't know what the ball measurements were because the NFL refused to tell them.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/31/patriots-release-emails-to-nfl-on-leaks-of-false-information/

Those are e-mails the Patriots released that happened in February. It's a team employee e-mailing the NFL basically begging them to tell them or release the real PSI measurements because of all the leaks in the media that made it sound worse than it was.

Again, the report everyone held on to was 11 of 12 were 2lbs under each. That is very specific and if true, screams of manipulation. So you're Tom Brady and you're giving that press conference, you don't know what the ball measurements were. Assume for a moment that he's innocent - he doesn't really know what he's denying. Maybe someone did screw with the balls without him knowing about it. The point is he doesn't know because the only information the Patriots have is that 11 of 12 balls were 2lbs under. They can't explain it because it doesn't make sense. Turns out it doesn't make sense because it wasn't true.

And I'm not sure that I agree they didn't issue a strong denial. Maybe not the first weekend, but Kraft came out and was quite definitive, and Belichick's My Cousin Vinny press conference was very pointed.

But again, the larger point is, the Patriots couldn't address what was going on because the NFL refused to give them, or anyone, the actual measurements of the football.

3) I have no idea what this means. It's a matter of degree. The Colts balls were "underinflated" if the definition of that is below 12.5. I'm sure if a ball is very underinflated, you can tell, and very overinflated, you can tell. Brady could tell when he played with 16lb balls in the Jets game last year. So I'd guess it depends on the magnitude, but I don't know what this has to do with tampering.

4) Again, you're using the word "deflated." I'm assuming you mean tampered. And yes, if it was found that Jasztremski tampered with the balls, I'd expect him to be fired. He hasn't been fired. Probably because he didn't tamper with footballs.

5) As you say, the phone thing is completely overblown. Brady was never going to give his phone. He told Wells as much, and at one point Wells even told him not to worry about it. Brady did hand over thousands of text messages and offered to provide a spreadsheet that had a record of every single text message and phone call he made over the time period. Wells could then contact anyone on the spreadsheet and request the contents of messages. Wells declined his offer. I guess it wouldn't be covered in his $5 million budget.

I'm still not sure what people think was on his phone. They had McNally and Jastremski's phones, which had correspondence from Brady. Obviously nothing incriminating was found.

And as a lawyer, I'm surprised you say that about the judge. The answer is because the judge wasn't ruling on evidence or whether or not Brady did anything or whether or not he acted shady with his phone. The judge was ruling on process, and he found the NFL's process to be in violation of several "law of shop" elements, specifically notice and fairness.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:26 pm

Norfolk Bombers wrote:
New England Nineties wrote:


5) I assume everyone knows that 3 out of 4 of the Colts balls were under 12.5 as well. Only 4 balls were tested because the refs "ran out of time" (lol) and, like the Patriots balls, the starting pressure of the Colts balls was never recorded either, so it's impossible to know how much pressure the Colts balls lost as well.



This is all you need to read to know you have a homerish take...  3 / 4of the colts balls were under on ONE gauge and not the other.  It is real important to discuss which gauge is used when discussing Pats  balls, but you quickly drop a  half fact (half a fact that fits your angle of the story) and walk away.

Why not tell the whole truth on this fact as well????

eating popcorn eating popcorn eating popcorn

It's irrelevant which gauge was used for the Colts balls because we're not investigating the Colts balls. The point is, footballs go below 12.5 even if they start at 12.5.

But yea, keep trolling.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:27 pm

Titletown Tyrants wrote:
That's skirting around it. Do you think Tom did it or not? One word, yes or no?

Skirting around it? It's not skirting around it. It's dumb to ask a yes or no question as to whether or not he did "it" because what I'm saying is there is very flimsy evidence that there was an "it."


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:32 pm

[quote="Titletown

I know this is a VERY different subject, but this situation reminded me of the OJ trial. Everyone knew he did it. He did it. He cheated life, and things came back to bite him.
[/quote]

Honestly, if you think that these two situations are similar in any way with respect to the evidence, you're extremely ignorant about one, or both, of these cases. The DNA evidence showed like a 99.9999999999% chance (literally) that OJ was at the murder scene. In this case, there isn't really any legitimate evidence that balls were tampered with at all, and zero evidence that Brady had anything to do with it if it was.

But I can see that this is pointless as you don't seem interested in actually being informed about anything, so I'll stop investing time here.


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Bergen Brawlers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:43 pm

Thanks for the responses. It shed some light. I do have the following comments:

(1) The "Deflator" - I'm not saying it's evidence about Brady but this is the one thing that never seemed to be cleared up. The nickname sounds very coincidental.

(2) I just think that the response would have been that the information is incorrect. But I didn't see all denials so they may have said that.

(3) The point here was that Tom Brady knows if a ball is underflated, properly inflated, or overinflated. Heck, I know the difference although probably not with the precision that Brady does. I think that he had to know that the balls were inflated to a certain level. He may not realize that it's underinflated but he should be aware of the general feel.

(4) agreed.

(5) Destruction of evidence is huge right now and the penalties are severe. There are many cases that are resolved solely on this issue. We had a fairly large case where the entire case turned 180 degrees in our favor when we found out that emails had been deleted, allegedly unintentionally. Once the destruction has been established (it has been), and the relevance (I think that it's tough to argue that they are irrelevant but this is closer), then the sanctions follow. I agree that the ruling came on procedure but my experience is that a party that has destroyed or lost evidence doesn't get many breaks.


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Devils Tower Outlaws
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:23 pm

I am so done with this story, I am not reading any of the LONG posts before this one... I am just stopping in to say fuck the little Brady cunt and fuck Goodell too... ass kicking


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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:30 pm

Devils Tower Outlaws wrote:
I am so done with this story,  I am not reading any of the LONG posts before this one...   I am just stopping in to say fuck the little Brady cunt and fuck Goodell too...   ass kicking

I imagined this being read like this...



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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:32 pm

Philadelphia Pigskins wrote:
Devils Tower Outlaws wrote:
I am so done with this story,  I am not reading any of the LONG posts before this one...   I am just stopping in to say fuck the little Brady cunt and fuck Goodell too...   ass kicking

I imagined this being read like this...


Spot on! rofl


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:35 pm

New England Nineties wrote:
Norfolk Bombers wrote:
New England Nineties wrote:


5) I assume everyone knows that 3 out of 4 of the Colts balls were under 12.5 as well. Only 4 balls were tested because the refs "ran out of time" (lol) and, like the Patriots balls, the starting pressure of the Colts balls was never recorded either, so it's impossible to know how much pressure the Colts balls lost as well.



This is all you need to read to know you have a homerish take...  3 / 4of the colts balls were under on ONE gauge and not the other.  It is real important to discuss which gauge is used when discussing Pats  balls, but you quickly drop a  half fact (half a fact that fits your angle of the story) and walk away.

Why not tell the whole truth on this fact as well????

eating popcorn eating popcorn eating popcorn

It's irrelevant which gauge was used for the Colts balls because we're not investigating the Colts balls. The point is, footballs go below 12.5 even if they start at 12.5.

But yea, keep trolling.

Keep calling out the people that state all the facts as trolls. It fits your story better to say that the colts balls were under. THE FACTS are that one gauge had 3 balls under and the other gauge had 0 BALLS UNDER. However, EVERY PATS FAN states that 3 of 4 colts balls were under as if it were fact. It is not fact, one gauge did (the gauge that Pats fans do not want used when looking at Pats balls) and the other gauge had them all over. Why not tell the ENTIRE story here. The littlest of facts seem to matter on every other issue right??????


I doubt that you will answer with any sincerity. Just call me a troll again and keep on moving because everyone know you have no answer to this....

rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Tom Brady QB NEP   Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:44 pm

I gave no shits about this story the first time I heard it and I find it wild how much money and time has gone into it. The NFL can blame itself for any and all of it by not having a sound policy and procedure to handle this and many other things.

In my world, there would be a rock solid process which once carried out would leave no doubt and have a clearly defined penalty that no twit or twit judge could contest and heads would roll as designed.

Evil laugh

Let's play football bitches!


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