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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:20 pm

For starting S Harrison Smith who was declared out Saturday morning, the Gadabouts have been fined $10 (first offense). Friday at 11:59pm CT deadline.


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Mohawk Ridge Marauders
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:24 pm

Didn't see that coming!


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:08 pm

Okay.

I will send the monies in.    Please also accept my resignation from the league.  

I have never agreed with monetary fines and from day 1, I have always said that if I ever was fined in this league that I would leave.  

Thanks,
Brad


ETA: Money has been sent.


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Muskego Muskies
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:44 pm

Well that escalated quickly


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Morrison Minions
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:51 pm

surprised2

No way. That didn't just happen.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:51 pm

Brick killed a guy.

See ya Brad. For what it's worth, I empathize with your position on monetary fines. Or sympathize. I am never sure which word to use.


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:22 pm

Yeah, I'll miss everyone. But I always knew this was a possibility. I have said it in other threads in discussing fines that folks have received.

That funny part is that I was out of town at a soccer tournament with the kids and i LITERALLY pulled off the highway 15 minutes before the 1p kickoff of games and went through my roster. I took 2 guys out who were listed as out that had been in the starting lineup and apparently missed Smith.

Oh well, always a first time for everything.


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:47 pm

shocking


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England Dragons
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:55 pm

Say it ain't so, Brad.

no


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Littleton SilverBallers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:12 pm

Wow, didn't see that coming!?  Please don't leave Brad


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:52 pm

Can I switch teams???


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:55 pm

Titletown Tyrants wrote:
Can I switch teams???

Nope. Not how it works.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:57 pm

Minnesota Eternals wrote:
Titletown Tyrants wrote:
Can I switch teams???

Nope.  Not how it works.

I was kidding, but damn that's a way better setup than I have. I blame you psychos!!!!! Crying or Very sad


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:05 pm

The penalty has been paid and the progressive pot is now at $778


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Hamilton Steel Cats
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:21 pm

Sometimes a GIF is needed to capture a moment. wink




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Las Vegas DeGenerates
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:08 pm



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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:50 pm

This can't be good for the league...


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California Nightmare
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:52 pm

Uh Brad, I am pretty sure Corey has a service that would help prevent this from happening.


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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:36 am

I'd gladly pay the fine if it keeps Brad onboard


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Singapore Slings
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:15 am

Wild. Kudos for putting your money where your mouth is, though it sucks to see you go Brad. I had a similar decision to make in the first session when we had to roll the dice. I luckily rolled $10, decided to bite the bullet, and pay my fine, and move on. I'm happy I made the choice that I did.


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Kane County Goon Squad
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:35 pm

stars stars stars


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Singapore Slings
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:10 pm

Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
Yeah, I'll miss everyone.  But I always knew this was a possibility.  I have said it in other threads in discussing fines that folks have received.  

That funny part is that I was out of town at a soccer tournament with the kids and i LITERALLY pulled off the highway 15 minutes before the 1p kickoff of games and went through my roster.  I took 2 guys out who were listed as out that had been in the starting lineup and apparently missed Smith.  

Oh well, always a first time for everything.

This really is a very similar situation to my fine. Except for that I was hungover and it was like 11:00 AM on Sunday. I missed pulling Erin fucking Henderson who, ironically, was also a Viking IDP.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:19 pm

Singapore Slings wrote:
Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
Yeah, I'll miss everyone.  But I always knew this was a possibility.  I have said it in other threads in discussing fines that folks have received.  

That funny part is that I was out of town at a soccer tournament with the kids and i LITERALLY pulled off the highway 15 minutes before the 1p kickoff of games and went through my roster.  I took 2 guys out who were listed as out that had been in the starting lineup and apparently missed Smith.  

Oh well, always a first time for everything.

This really is a very similar situation to my fine. Except for that I was hungover and it was like 11:00 AM on Sunday. I missed pulling Erin fucking Henderson who, ironically, was also a Viking IDP.

So basically human errors that will happen because we're humans, and not something that could have been deterred by real $ penalties? coffee


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Morrison Minions
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:31 pm

I HATE that Brad is leaving. He is as valuable as they come, and it won't be the same here without him. I understand his position completely.

I will always support this rule, however. In every other league I have ever been in, this type of thing happens way too frequently. This is the only way to keep it to a minimum.

A mishap like this could affect a 3rd team not even in the matchup, hoping for a playoff spot, draft pick, anything.

Again, Brad is the last person I want to leave, and I do understand his side of things.

Good Luck Brad. I'm sure I'll see you around.


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:37 pm

I will not argue against this rule as I believe Andy has said it is one of the core rules he will not go without.  That said, there are ways to keep this down without real world monetary fines.  

scared


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:39 pm

Norfolk Bombers wrote:
I will not argue against this rule as I believe Andy has said it is one of the core rules he will not go without.  That said, there are ways to keep this down without real world monetary fines.  

scared

Of course there are. Would you care more about $10 or 50 WB? $20 or a future 2nd round pick?

But as you say, Andy has said it's a deal breaker, so no point in raising his blood pressure.


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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:58 pm

Lets not jump the gun yet on this one. Sometimes a few days or a day can help in "cooling things down". I am still hopefull this two great dudes can work something out behind the scene...


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:01 pm

BUT I NEVER LEARNED WHAT A GADABOUT IS


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Indiana Mayhem
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:40 pm

Darn Soccer games.......tough day here at the RW. Maybe he stays afterall.


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Kirksville Growlers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:49 pm

I hate to hear this news, Brad is a great guy and a great member of our league. I wish him the best and I respect his decision.


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Singapore Slings
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:06 pm

New England Nineties wrote:
Singapore Slings wrote:
Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
Yeah, I'll miss everyone.  But I always knew this was a possibility.  I have said it in other threads in discussing fines that folks have received.  

That funny part is that I was out of town at a soccer tournament with the kids and i LITERALLY pulled off the highway 15 minutes before the 1p kickoff of games and went through my roster.  I took 2 guys out who were listed as out that had been in the starting lineup and apparently missed Smith.  

Oh well, always a first time for everything.

This really is a very similar situation to my fine. Except for that I was hungover and it was like 11:00 AM on Sunday. I missed pulling Erin fucking Henderson who, ironically, was also a Viking IDP.

So basically human errors that will happen because we're humans, and not something that could have been deterred by real $ penalties? coffee

New England Nineties wrote:
Norfolk Bombers wrote:
I will not argue against this rule as I believe Andy has said it is one of the core rules he will not go without.  That said, there are ways to keep this down without real world monetary fines.  

scared

Of course there are. Would you care more about $10 or 50 WB? $20 or a future 2nd round pick?

But as you say, Andy has said it's a deal breaker, so no point in raising his blood pressure.

ref

The New England Nineties are penalized $10 for obvious bullshit in consecutive posts.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:09 pm

Actually I made a few lineup mistakes back in 2014, so that would be $80.


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:11 pm

You can substitute that $80 fine for a 2017 first!

:happy:


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:30 pm

Just to provide an update... Here is what I wrote to Andy earlier this morning:

Gadabouts wrote:

Honestly, I'm torn.  I love the league and the community but absolutely abhor monetary fines for a first time offense.  I mean, I've been in the league since its inception and initially discussed it with you when there was only 4-5 of on on the message boards.  I appreciate that the penalty is now such a minor amount, but the principle of the thing drives me mad.  lol

On a positive note, I was able to finally tell (and show) the kids that I will "stop this car" when I pulled over on the highway to alter my lineup...  You should have seen their faces... Oh no, what did WE DO as I sat there silently for about 10 seconds as I grabbed my phone.  haha

But, back to the issue at hand.  Tony's comment on the board is what has me most perplexed and one I have to consider.  Is taking a stand worth it at the expense of something I really enjoy?  Would I be better served drafting a rule proposal that would grant a mulligan for first time offenses if something hasn't happened in 2 years (or something to that affect).  I don't know.    I wish I had not drastically announced my resignation and instead waited until today.  In all honesty, I am leaning toward leaving the league over it; but I realize that it may seem rash and without much logic and that's what I have to grapple with.    Regardless, I'll continue through the end of the season with my team.

So, for now, are you okay with me rescinding my resignation (I'll post this message to the board as well) and I'll see how things play out the rest of the way and I'll plan on drafting a rule proposal because it would really suck to leave the league b/c of Harrison effing Smith and the stupid vikings announcing that he was out 35 minutes before the 24 hr deadline after he had practiced on Friday.

But, after sending that, Andy wrote back about the deal-breaker nature of it for him. I respect his opinion and the way in which he presented/wrote back to me about it. He and I will have to agree to disagree.

Long story short, I'll play out this year.  I paid the fine and I'll just have to decide if this was so fluky as to just let it be and think of it that I just paid some money in to the league's beer fund because I wore an eye black tribute like Cam Heyward.  At the end of the day, that may just be the best thing because even if the fine had been $1,800, I still would have missed Harrison Smith being out.


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Bergen Brawlers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:05 pm

Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
Just to provide an update... Here is what I wrote to Andy earlier this morning:

Gadabouts wrote:

Honestly, I'm torn.  I love the league and the community but absolutely abhor monetary fines for a first time offense.  I mean, I've been in the league since its inception and initially discussed it with you when there was only 4-5 of on on the message boards.  I appreciate that the penalty is now such a minor amount, but the principle of the thing drives me mad.  lol

On a positive note, I was able to finally tell (and show) the kids that I will "stop this car" when I pulled over on the highway to alter my lineup...  You should have seen their faces... Oh no, what did WE DO as I sat there silently for about 10 seconds as I grabbed my phone.  haha

But, back to the issue at hand.  Tony's comment on the board is what has me most perplexed and one I have to consider.  Is taking a stand worth it at the expense of something I really enjoy?  Would I be better served drafting a rule proposal that would grant a mulligan for first time offenses if something hasn't happened in 2 years (or something to that affect).  I don't know.    I wish I had not drastically announced my resignation and instead waited until today.  In all honesty, I am leaning toward leaving the league over it; but I realize that it may seem rash and without much logic and that's what I have to grapple with.    Regardless, I'll continue through the end of the season with my team.

So, for now, are you okay with me rescinding my resignation (I'll post this message to the board as well) and I'll see how things play out the rest of the way and I'll plan on drafting a rule proposal because it would really suck to leave the league b/c of Harrison effing Smith and the stupid vikings announcing that he was out 35 minutes before the 24 hr deadline after he had practiced on Friday.

But, after sending that, Andy wrote back about the deal-breaker nature of it for him. I respect his opinion and the way in which he presented/wrote back to me about it.  He and I will have to agree to disagree.

Long story short, I'll play out this year.  I paid the fine and I'll just have to decide if this was so fluky as to just let it be and think of it that I just paid some money in to the league's beer fund because I wore an eye black tribute like Cam Heyward.  At the end of the day, that may just be the best thing because even if the fine had been $1,800, I still would have missed Harrison Smith being out.

So I don't get Bell and Watkins? hairout

Seriously, though, it's good to see calmer heads prevail. Looking forward to getting a chance at the "big leagues," even if it will be a little bit longer of a wait and irrespective of the team. For now I'll focus my energies on bringing the RWTC title home to Bergen.


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Kirksville Growlers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:39 pm

I hope this all works out and Brad is here to stay. Hate the situation but I understand both sides

Good luck to all in the playoffs cheers


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:53 pm

So you are saying there's a chance!

high five


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Baja Beatniks
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:19 pm

Brad, I hope you know I like you.

"I read the rules, signed up, and now am quitting when they're enforced", though?

Had a couple of extra shitty weeks at work and pissed that I didn't make the playoffs so I need to re-visit with a clearer head, but I'm also doubtful to return next season.


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California Nightmare
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm

Baja Beatniks wrote:
Had a couple of extra shitty weeks at work and pissed that I didn't make the playoffs so I need to re-visit with a clearer head, but I'm also doubtful to return next season.




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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:35 pm

Baja Beatniks wrote:
Brad, I hope you know I like you.

"I read the rules, signed up, and now am quitting when they're enforced", though?

Had a couple of extra shitty weeks at work and pissed that I didn't make the playoffs so I need to re-visit with a clearer head, but I'm also doubtful to return next season.  

I suppose that's one way to look at it.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:28 pm

Sanibel Gadabouts wrote:
At the end of the day, that may just be the best thing because even if the fine had been $1,800, I still would have missed Harrison Smith being out.

This is the issue with the fines, IMO. Punishment should be deterrent in nature, not punitive. It was worse when we had the roll of the dice before because that meant punishments were also completely arbitrary. Andy came down on that, which I appreciated, but I still think the doubling of the fines over two years is counterproductive.

If someone made a mistake, like you once in however many years, then there is no deterrent value in punishing you because you can't be deterred from making the occasional mistake. If you make two mistakes, there's no reason to think that your second mistake would do twice as much damage, in a competitive sense, to the league than your first (it might be that your first mistake cost someone a playoff spot and your second didn't change anything).

It's not as arbitrary as the dice because it does escalate, but it can still happen.

In a perfect world, I'd penalize owners in the fantasy football realm - hurt them where it actually hurts their team. That's more relevant and doesn't get into the "real" world. If I care about my team, losing a 2nd round pick hurts a hell of a lot more than kicking in $20. If I don't care about my team, I'll quickly (rightly) be removed, and the new owner can have that 2nd round pick back (it would be held in some kind of escrow, in my mind).

But Andy has said several times that it's a deal-breaker for him, and I always say that while I'll always post my opinions on things, this is Andy's league, and Andy's world. I guess within his deal-breaker world, the only change I'd ask him to make (further change, that is) is that the penalties don't escalate. $10 or $20 or whatever...and if you get three or four of them in a season, maybe the league isn't for you anyway, or maybe that decision should be made for you by Andy.

My next penalty will be $80. I'll admit that I'm not sure I'd pay that. It's ridiculous, really. It's almost what the freaking league costs. I had three line-up issues in 2014 (based no the history section - I don't remember them myself). That one and the $80 thing has been hanging over my head all season, as it will next season (I think the rule is 2 calendar years?). If someone isn't clearly a bad fit for the league, is active, competitive, and all the other things we look for, why are we set up to take $80 from someone for something that doesn't impact anything (and yes, I know it could)?

Of course the answer might be that in the example of myself, I am not a fit for the league, or not anymore, which is something I have considered. But that would bum me out.

Anyway Brad, I see where you're coming from is the point. Even though I'm a serial offender and you're not.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:11 am

If you think I have this rule as a preventative measure, you are mistaken.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:37 am

Before I continue, let's get one thing straight...Brad is a fluke...he doesn't fuck up lineups and he is someone I don't worry about when it comes to delivering in this league.

Now that we have that out of the way, on behalf of myself only (and in my mind all owners who just get it the fuck done week in and week out) I want justice for others fucking up. I have played in many leagues that essentially do nothing and you know what....it's motherfucking retarded and anyone who feels differently should go play some free yahoo leagues or something because you'll get all that and more. Have fun!

Brad and I are square...I know where he is at and he (and now all of you) know where I am at. Mulligans, hand-holding and OOPS are for other leagues, not this one. Don't like fines? Don't fuckin get one. Not to be a cunt but Corey kinda nailed it....he may not have liked it but it was there since day 1 and he joined anyway so not sure how this even started. Like I told him, if I were in his shoes I wouldn't give a shit and I would pay the fine (like he did) and be confident that I won't have to worry about escalators because it won't happen again.

I missed it before but I think those against it were misunderstanding that I thought it was preventing things...oh no...I am feeding the progressive pot with fuck-up juice and leaving it in your court as to whether or not this league is for you or not. Rob has paid dearly without a word because he wants to be here. Others have bitched when they got pinched. Brad apparently was playing until the rule got him. Whatever works folks...I am at peace with it. I wouldn't be at peace if ya'll could botch lineups whenever without any repercussions...I wouldn't make it a month if that were the case and I wouldn't lift another finger either. More often than not, this sort of stuff affects other teams at varying levels and why does anyone find that acceptable?

For the "penalize WBs or draft picks instead" argument....yeah, cuz the owner that takes over your franchise later should pay for your mistakes AND for the "just give it back if the owner leaves" argument....yeah, cuz I don't have enough shit to track and where the fuck would the line be for when things are not reversible any more? That's a whole lot of gray area to take on just because some don't like the very simplistic and avoidable system we have today.

-------------

Yeah I know...I am an abrasive cunt. I think we all knew that a few years ago. There are things I won't budge on and there are obvious examples of people convincing me to alter my standpoint...you just have to be right is all. Evil laugh Everyone here can resign and go start their softer, cuddly and more forgiving version of this league if they want to and I will wish them luck without an ounce of sarcasm but I just have no interest in that sort of thing.

Boy I am a wordy motherfucker....I don't need everyone to agree with me. The point is, you folks decide what's best for you and I will understand.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:41 am

Oh..and officially....as Brad said, the Gadabouts are business as usual for the remainder of the 2015 season. If Brad chooses to resign at seasons end, that is his choice to make.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:05 am

Andy, you always go on this tired rant about how you've been in crappy leagues and how this isn't a Yahoo league, etc. when all the while, nobody is arguing to make it that way. Nobody is proposing that there be "no repercussions", only that there's a way to have repercussions that can provide the same benefit to the league (i.e. making it as competitive as it is) without getting into real money and avoid ugly situations like this one with Brad. At least, I think it's an ugly situation, apparently you are at peace with it. If I were you I would be at least slightly not at peace with another good, original owner leaving. But as I've said 50 times, this is your playground we're in. #### me, I'll go play Yahoo leagues with teddy bear commissioners since clearly that's the only other option.



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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:08 am

And tracking "fantasy" penalties would not require any more work than you already put in for tracking the real $ ones.


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Morrison Minions
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:11 am

I guess the only issue I see with draft pick penalties is when they are given back after a team leaves. If I was the 3rd party that was affected by one of these, I wouldn't be happy that nothing happened (since it was penalized a pick and then taken back).


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England Dragons
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:20 am

I'm not sure that draft picks as a punishment would help anyway.

Brad made a genuine error that from his post would not have been picked up no matter what.

Would he be any less pissed if the punishment was losing a 2nd round pick?

If it was me, I'd rather pay the $10 than lose a high pick.


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Morrison Minions
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:34 am

On second thought, there are way too many variables. What if a team doesn't have any picks? What if they don't have any War Bucks? Or say a team does get a penalty. From that point on, they are more likely to say fuck it, make even more lineup errors, and then bolt.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Owner Penalty (Sanibel Gadabouts)   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:37 am

New England Nineties wrote:
Andy, you always go on this tired rant about how you've been in crappy leagues and how this isn't a Yahoo league, etc. when all the while, nobody is arguing to make it that way. Nobody is proposing that there be "no repercussions", only that there's a way to have repercussions that can provide the same benefit to the league (i.e. making it as competitive as it is) without getting into real money and avoid ugly situations like this one with Brad. At least, I think it's an ugly situation, apparently you are at peace with it. If I were you I would be at least slightly not at peace with another good, original owner leaving. But as I've said 50 times, this is your playground we're in. #### me, I'll go play Yahoo leagues with teddy bear commissioners since clearly that's the only other option.


I don't see how you can claim that penalizing teams Warbucks or draft picks holds the same weight since putting in 2 minutes per week to earn Warbucks has been too tall an order for you sir (NFL Pick'em) and since my other league does in fact penalize these bucks and not once has an owner even batted an eye at it when it's happened. It's a great theory but it's complete fantasy.

The current policy is easily the better option when you take into account the added work on me to iron out all the bullshit grey areas that you seem to think don't exist, get it worded properly for our bylaws, no longer have "a gain" to the rest of the league when someone fucks up whilst penalizing them something that some owners clearly don't give a shit about to begin with and if/when these offenders bail on the league the future owner of their franchise is left holding the bill. Haha...yeah....I'm short of convinced.

What if an offending owner doesn't have warbucks?
What if they don't have the right picks?
What level of picks are we talking?
How far back do we undo penalties of this sort if the offending pussy leaves and a new owner is left wondering WTF happened to their shit?
Why should we fix what isn't broken because a few dislike the principle of it?
Why do people join leagues if they disagree with the rules?
Why is punishing the guilty such a horrible idea?
Why should the inability of others to deliver negatively impact an owner who came to play every day?


In 4 years, there have been 29 penalties committed. That's better than most leagues (if they bothered to track it or give a shit) and we have twice the owners as most leagues. These 29 penalties were committed by 16 of the 39 current/former owners of Roster Wars which means 23 individuals have never had to pay a penny because of this policy and yet the loudest opponents of said policy are amongst the 16 offenders (color me fuckin shocked) and there would be more I am sure but 6 of those 16 are no longer in the league which I feel in some way backs up the intent of it all even if the fine print on those situations didn't come down to this policy alone.

Yup...I am confident with where things stand even if not everyone agrees.


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