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 Why do we have a trade deadline?

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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:33 am

Discuss...


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Morrison Minions
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:22 am

uh...


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Littleton SilverBallers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:42 am

I like not allowing trades after week 13.  That way teams that didn't make the playoffs, can't just trade good players to playoff teams and make a playoff team stronger.  

I think every fantasy league should have a trade deadline right before the playoffs.  That way no team can get an advantage heading into the playoffs, by trading for a player that will push them over the top


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Mohawk Ridge Marauders
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:49 am

I dunno. Hate it personally.


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:54 am

agree with Justin



Maybe, deadlines spur action.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:34 am

I know there are people that HATE when there is none but I hate the arbitrary early deadlines most leagues have so I went with a simple "when playoffs start, trading stops" policy. Honestly, if there was no deadline I wouldn't cry about it but I do kinda like that if an opponent in the playoffs gets hit with an injury they are left to deal with it while the rest of us lick our chops versus that same owner just turning around and possibly even upgrading by paying big time to backfill even if that probably benefits a lesser team long term.


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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:43 am

Littleton SilverBallers wrote:
I like not allowing trades after week 13.  That way teams that didn't make the playoffs, can't just trade good players to playoff teams and make a playoff team stronger.  

I think every fantasy league should have a trade deadline right before the playoffs.  That way no team can get an advantage heading into the playoffs, by trading for a player that will push them over the top

Why would you have a problem with contenders making win now moves during the playoffs but not just before them?


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Littleton SilverBallers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:40 pm

Atlanta Africans wrote:
Littleton SilverBallers wrote:
I like not allowing trades after week 13.  That way teams that didn't make the playoffs, can't just trade good players to playoff teams and make a playoff team stronger.  

I think every fantasy league should have a trade deadline right before the playoffs.  That way no team can get an advantage heading into the playoffs, by trading for a player that will push them over the top

Why would you have a problem with contenders making win now moves during the playoffs but not just before them?

Because, like Andy said, if a contending team gets hit with a injury during  the playoffs, they have to go with what they got and not get bailed out by trading with a non playoff team.  

Plus, it also evens the playing field, in that, a team with less of a chance to make a playoff run gets a boost in their next matchup.


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:52 pm

Having the trade deadline as late as this leagues is good, it gives you a deadline which Spurs action as stated above, it's also later than the week 10 deadline in some other leagues. The playoff collusion factor is big. Teams having the option to "buy a championship" isn't fair. You need the deadline, just my opinion.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:37 pm

Not that I have ever seen it because I have never actually played in a league where trading is allowed during the playoffs...and if anyone has please provide some insight...but what Nick just said caught my eye...

"Buy a championship"

If we allowed trading during the playoffs...and since Ian brought it up I will use him as the example...say week 15 ends and we have the Africans facing the Bombers for the championship...Now because they both know this is IT, if Bombers (Dave) just says "fuck it, I am gonna win this mofo" and goes berserk and trades nearly all his picks and whatever else to go ALL-IN on this one game how would that make you feel Ian? Moreso, how can I stop him as he is clearly weighing his now/future options and made a decision even if many wouldn't agree? And how horrific is it for the league as a whole if that owner (win or lose) then drops out of he league following the results?

Granted one could do this before our deadline but it would be very unwise and not as enticing.

Not to mention if that did happen, and the other party (Ian) does the same in order to compete and now we have two fucked up teams.

I think I just talked myself out of letting this even be considered but feel free to keep talking about it...lots to consider...


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Titletown Tyrants
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:43 pm

Minnesota Eternals wrote:
Not that I have ever seen it because I have never actually played in a league where trading is allowed during the playoffs...and if anyone has please provide some insight...but what Nick just said caught my eye...

"Buy a championship"

If we allowed trading during the playoffs...and since Ian brought it up I will use him as the example...say week 15 ends and we have the Africans facing the Bombers for the championship...Now because they both know this is IT, if Bombers (Dave) just says "fuck it, I am gonna win this mofo" and goes berserk and trades nearly all his picks and whatever else to go ALL-IN on this one game how would that make you feel Ian? Moreso, how can I stop him as he is clearly weighing his now/future options and made a decision even if many wouldn't agree?  And how horrific is it for the league as a whole if that owner (win or lose) then drops out of he league following the results?

Granted one could do this before our deadline but it would be very unwise and not as enticing.

Not to mention if that did happen, and the other party (Ian) does the same in order to compete and now we have two fucked up teams.

I think I just talked myself out of letting this even be considered but feel free to keep talking about it...lots to consider...

I posted that not saying that anyone would, and since I am so new, I am not really sure if anyone would, but I do know of other guys in my other leagues who would do so if given the opportunity.


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:54 pm

I don't think people here would either but part of my job (and who I am anyways) is trying to spot bad shit in our path and allowing trading throughout certainly opens the window for a late season arms race which would not only leave the league susceptible to the aftermath but honestly even if owners didn't bail, the title game wouldn't feel very....pure...if you ask me.


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Philadelphia Pigskins
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:05 pm

To me part of the fun, and what breaks up different seasons, is trying to build a team for the playoffs, and seeing how that team performs once you get there. I don't mind no trading during the playoffs.


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Whiskey Creek Gadabouts
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:19 pm

I think in the vast majority of leagues, those concerns with buying a championship & bolting are valid. However, what we strive for here is something different. We have had turnover, but I dunno if anyone would buy a championship and then leave.

I agree that it wouldn't feel as pure if the team was looking to buy it, but I would hope that each trade like that would mirror THE TRADE as far as lobsidedness goes... It would be contingent on everyone else in the league to try to bend over the championship team as much as possible.


I was in a league without a trade deadline and there was very little activity... I don't know if people didn't really realize it, it was like the league imposed their own trade deadline. haha


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Bergen Brawlers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:36 pm

Another benefit to a deadline is that it forces you to prepare for injuries, etc. and look to pick up an extra piece or two before you enter the playoffs because you know that your options are limited. If there is no deadline you could just ride with what you have and pay extra if an injury arises. I prefer to reward those that plan ahead.


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Tarpon Springs RedKnights
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:39 pm

I like the current "lenient" policy of ending trading when playoffs start but if it was put to a vote it would be 50/50 between what we have currently and going with no limit, no deadline.


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England Dragons
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:59 pm

It's good as it is. I have trade deadlines in 4 of my 6 leagues tomorrow and it feels too early in the leagues where I have a shot of making the play-offs but not a great shot.

It's forcing me to either go all-in with not much chance of making it or playing for 2016 when I could have a chance.

The trading stops when the play-offs start is dead on in my opinion.
vote yes


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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:01 pm

Bergen Brawlers wrote:
Another benefit to a deadline is that it forces you to prepare for injuries, etc. and look to pick up an extra piece or two before you enter the playoffs because you know that your options are limited.  If there is no deadline you could just ride with what you have and pay extra if an injury arises.  I prefer to reward those that plan ahead.

BTW I'm not suggesting we don't need a deadline. This thread started cos someone in my other league asked that and I was like, yeah I can see the traditional reason but it wasn't clear to me that it holds water

Responding to the above, I don't get the artificial distinction of pre and post playoffs. For many teams the 3+ weeks before the official playoffs are must win games anyway...

Good input so far, keep it coming


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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:01 pm

England Dragons wrote:

The trading stops when the play-offs start is dead on in my opinion.
vote yes

Why?


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:03 pm

Minnesota Eternals wrote:


If we allowed trading during the playoffs...and since Ian brought it up I will use him as the example...say week 15 ends and we have the Africans facing the Bombers for the championship...

Stopping reading right there!

party4


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:04 pm

I am indifferent to a trade deadline as long as it is not moved up. I could see reasons for keeping it and getting rid of it.

shrug


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England Dragons
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:08 pm

Atlanta Africans wrote:
England Dragons wrote:

The trading stops when the play-offs start is dead on in my opinion.
vote yes

Why?

Stopping it earlier is too early. It reduces a struggling team's opportunity to trade away players with temporary value. Any studs on contending teams that get injured in week 11 or 12 may need replacing, giving a struggling team time to move an older guy for something to help them next year.

Extending the trade in to the play-offs gives a team the chance to wreck their future to win now. That can happen at any time during the season, of course, but if you think you are over-matched when it's lose and you're out, human nature makes people do stupid things.

That's my take anyways.

cheers



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Bergen Brawlers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:15 pm

Atlanta Africans wrote:
Bergen Brawlers wrote:
Another benefit to a deadline is that it forces you to prepare for injuries, etc. and look to pick up an extra piece or two before you enter the playoffs because you know that your options are limited.  If there is no deadline you could just ride with what you have and pay extra if an injury arises.  I prefer to reward those that plan ahead.

BTW I'm not suggesting we don't need a deadline. This thread started cos someone in my other league asked that and I was like, yeah I can see the traditional reason but it wasn't clear to me that it holds water

Responding to the above, I don't get the artificial distinction of pre and post playoffs. For many teams the 3+ weeks before the official playoffs are must win games anyway...

Good input so far, keep it coming

On my point, and it may differ in RWTC, but in a lot of leagues I'm in there is a trade deadline and, in some, a free agent pick up deadline. So it's important to set your team up as you head to the playoffs so that you don't get caught in a position where you don't have a guy at a position (for example, maybe K, DT, or CB in this league) or you don't have a quality starter (and, as such, might pick up a CJ0k as insurance). These types of moves help the non-playoff teams by requiring competitors to drop players into the free agent pool or trade away a young asset for a CJ0k type of guy.

But if I know that I'll have full access to trades and free agent pick ups through the end of the season, there is no need to set up my roster to compete in the playoffs and be prepared for injuries, benchings, etc.


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:16 pm

I think at some point, you have to be forced to build a roster without having the backup option of liquidating assets to buy something for the next game. I don't think it's a right or wrong thing, I just think that's the right way to do it.

Plus, in the playoffs, when trading with teams who are not in the playoffs, 1 year players have almost no value to non-contenders (assuming they are not good enough to warrant a tag or something) but could have huge impacts on the existing contenders.

Hypothetically, let's say I have a first round playoff game and my QB gets hurt. Some team has a QB who's good, but not good/young enough to spend a SFT on. If you're the team playing against me, are you okay with me filling a critical hole in my line up for like a future 4th + 10 WB? Should you be expected to go around buying up 1 year QB's to make sure I don't get one?

Then the next round comes, and there are no more non-contenders, so 1 year players are even more plentiful. These teams have even less to play for as they're not even in the Loser's Bracket. Same question - if you are eliminated and have some surprise player on a 1 year deal that you don't think you'll bother tagging - why not get a 4th or 5th round pick out of it? He's literally worthless to you.

I just don't think it's a good idea to have trading while the value of players to one group is nearly nothing and the value to another group is higher than ever.



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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:21 pm

That was a long post, longer than it needs to be, but just imagine this - it's the semi-finals, and a team who just got eliminated has like five/six 1 year players that are startable, but not worth tagging because they're mostly short-term type players - let's say two start-worthy LB's that are old, a DB having a random great season, an aging QB on a 1 year deal.

If you could trade during the playoffs, there are two things I'd worry about:

1) Those players are now literally worthless to you, other than what you could get for them in a trade.

2) Normally you have 11 teams to trade with (if you include Justin). But at this point in the season, there are only two teams that need 1 year players.

A diligent owner in this position would be like "Eff it, I'll take 20 WB's for these guys, better than nothing."

Are you comfortable with a team headed into the championship game upgrading at 4-5 starting spots for a few WB's or a late pick?

If you are, that's fine. Personally, I'm not. I think it's letting a team get cheap, easy value because of a vastly warped market in terms of supply/demand. I think you should have to win the league with what you brought into the tournament.


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:43 pm

Not saying you are wrong or right, but in that situation would there not be 9 teams selling and two teams buying. Would not both teams be able to buy these worthless one year guys from everyone? would that not help the bottom teams get better faster?

I do not believe in everything I just typed, just playing devils advocate here...


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:47 pm

Mike nailed it. That's what I was saying too but Mike painted the picture much much better.  I think the downsides far outweigh the upsides of the idea.


@Dave...sure but he's still right that basically 9 teams are giving up close to nothing for SOMETHING while the two teams remaining are in a retarded arms race to ensure that whatever we see in the championship game is not any team we've seen all year. Like Mike, I find that very unappealing.


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:54 pm

That is fair. Like I said I do not have strong feelings one way or the other.




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Morrison Minions
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:14 pm

New England Nineties wrote:
That was a long post, longer than it needs to be, but just imagine this - it's the semi-finals, and a team who just got eliminated has like five/six 1 year players that are startable, but not worth tagging because they're mostly short-term type players - let's say two start-worthy LB's that are old, a DB having a random great season, an aging QB on a 1 year deal.

If you could trade during the playoffs, there are two things I'd worry about:

1) Those players are now literally worthless to you, other than what you could get for them in a trade.

2) Normally you have 11 teams to trade with (if you include Justin). But at this point in the season, there are only two teams that need 1 year players.

A diligent owner in this position would be like "Eff it, I'll take 20 WB's for these guys, better than nothing."

Are you comfortable with a team headed into the championship game upgrading at 4-5 starting spots for a few WB's or a late pick?

If you are, that's fine. Personally, I'm not. I think it's letting a team get cheap, easy value because of a vastly warped market in terms of supply/demand. I think you should have to win the league with what you brought into the tournament.

Perfect.


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Indiana Mayhem
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:23 pm

The NFL has a trade deadline.

I would vote against NO trade deadline I feel we need one (if it isnt broke dont fix it)


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:45 pm

Norfolk Bombers wrote:
Not saying you are wrong or right, but in that situation would there not be 9 teams selling and two teams buying.  Would not both teams be able to buy these worthless one year guys from everyone?  would that not help the bottom teams get better faster?

Yes, and the bolded is a problem. It would be a buyer's market to the extreme - 9 teams looking to sell players that are effectively useless to those teams, and only two teams to buy. That's what make players that could swing a championship extremely cheap. I don't think that's a good market dynamic for a championship game to happen in.

And because of that, I don't think it would help bottom teams get better faster. Again, they'd have to sell at rock bottom prices because of the lack of buyers and surplus of sellers. I mean, marginally, a team is "better" by trading a useless player and getting a few WB's, but that's not material improvement.

And I get that you might be saying "Well, both teams have the opportunity to trade." And yeah, that's true. I just don't think the championship week is the right time for like a 1-week rental arms race type thing.


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Atlanta Africans
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:12 pm

Again good thoughts

I would just highlight out the this is not a binary switch but rather a continuing evolution of the value of players being different between groups. That is already the case now in week 10/11 etc.

So at this point the deadline is somewhere along the continuum but I'm not sure it's clear why that point is the start of the playoffs...


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:47 pm

Atlanta Africans wrote:
Again good thoughts

I would just highlight out the this is not a binary switch but rather a continuing evolution of the value of players being different between groups. That is already the case now in week 10/11 etc.

So at this point the deadline is somewhere along the continuum but I'm not sure it's clear why that point is the start of the playoffs...

I agree it's a continuum, but I think movement along that continuum accelerates in the playoffs as teams have less and less to play for. In week 10/11, some teams are still alive that are not in week 12. After week 12, everyone is in a tournament, whether it's the playoffs of the loser's bracket - after that, teams begin to fall out of both and their season is effectively over.


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Norfolk Bombers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:47 pm

OK, Mike has completely won me over to his side.

cheers


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Minnesota Eternals
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:34 pm

Norfolk Bombers wrote:
OK, Mike has completely won me over to his side.

cheers

Well done Mike!


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New England Nineties
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:47 pm

I'm a people person. Especially dumb people that need to be told what is right. tongue


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Kane County Goon Squad
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:21 pm

Philadelphia Pigskins wrote:
To me part of the fun, and what breaks up different seasons, is trying to build a team for the playoffs, and seeing how that team performs once you get there. I don't mind no trading during the playoffs.  

good post agree


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San Francisco Golddiggers
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:02 am

I like deadline as is. Even if the team that bought the championship stayed around, I'd still feel like it was a tainted victory.


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Las Vegas DeGenerates
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Why do we have a trade deadline?   Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:05 pm

I like the deadline where it's at. Start of the playoffs is a great time to end trading. The only trading during playoffs that should be allowed should be teams that are not in the main championship bracket. Allowing those teams to keep tinkering with their rosters would make sense to me.


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